Forum - View topicFrieren: Beyond Journey's End (TV).
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Errinundra
Moderator
 Posts: 6534 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
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Frieren has played Serie beautifully in at least 2 ways. Take note of the title of the episode - The Era of Humans.
The first is she's achieved her immediate aim of having an accredited 1st class mage in the party, which will allow them to continue on their journey. Frieren isn't egotistical, so it's of no concern to her it's Fern and not herself. The second, which has deeper significance, is that Serie chose a human (Fern) over an elf (Frieren), hence the title of the episode. Frieren has long believed - since her apprenticeship with Flamme - that the future of magic lay with humans. Serie has opposed this view. Frieren told Fern that Serie's intuition never fails her. This may well be true, but the real reveal of this comment is that Frieren has Serie totally figured. She knows that Serie will try to spite her doubly. In fact, she was counting on it. If Serie can see through her own arrogance she may realise how she's brought forward the very future she opposes. |
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ACｘS
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Perhaps what I would love to see in Serie is how she came to believe that magic is reserved only for selected mages, and also how she eventually coached Flamme. She mentioned that she taught Flamme only "on a whim" but given how fearsome Flamme was—based on how many fake grimoires there are—Serie must have some investment in her to have taught her that much. I guess both Serie and Flamme have a lot of stories to tell. Their interactions are worth exploring, in my view. |
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WatcherZer
Posts: 277 |
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Dont forget the old 1st class mage, the first '1st class' mage is her apprentice as well. So after 950 odd years she did listen to Frieren and start teaching humans magic again.
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DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15495 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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I was kind of thinking that for Frieren to be so confident in Fern there has to be something in particular that is like a running theme with Fern. Like how all the other 1st class mages seem exceedingly good at something in particular, and for it to be more than the test takers Serie failed on the spot.
Of course we have liked Fern through the show, but comparing her to Frieren always has her look like the lesser one, and even comparing to all of the other ones possibly at her level. It was noted that Fern only uses very simple attack magic, being practically lower levels than Frieren, so it probably can't just be like a secret strength in the types of technical magics that I presume Serie doesn't like Frieren's keep it simple approach (for someone her age). All things considered, this reveal of confidence might be why at the start Frieren decided to take Fern on as her apprentice, kind of like Flamme for Serie. Taking the events of the interview, I think the reveal is that Fern is exceedingly good at observing, by at a look she saw through Serie's mana concealment. It was also in the previous test that Fern had for some time seen through Frieren's weakness of the moments note detecting mana. And weirdly it kind of feels like a first complete picture of her character, otherwise those parts that can often make Fern look unfeeling or cold herself, but I think have been meant to imply the difference to Frieren. Frieren character is that as an elf she is sort of detached from how humans are, but for Fern I think it really is that she is hyper observant, she doesn't generally speak when she doesn't need to, but all the same she has the same sort of emotions. Fern actually seems to get most frustrated when people don't have the same type of observation personality as herself, getting frustrated that Frieren even recommended throwing away the staff, when from Fern's point of view it should be obviously not. And that Stark also says he doesn't understand Fern. It was just an idea I had at recontextualising Fern's character being kind of cold like Frieren is to maybe more just works on a different wavelength, that some people see as cold, but the elves realise makes her exceptional. |
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ACｘS
Posts: 896 |
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I think it all comes down to mastery of one's mana.
Flamme taught Frieren the significance of suppressing one's mana to deceive demons, who are somewhat incapable of doing that. This skill is even frowned upon among mages; displaying one's mana reservoir is one of the tenets of using magic (it was even demonstrated in the previous First Class Mage exam when the proctor Burg showcased how much mana his mantle had... before getting cut in half). When Frieren met Fern for the first time, she also recognised how much mana the latter had and taught her the same thing. Mana mastery is one of the first things Frieren taught her. And granted, Fern can even defeat a Second Class Mage like Ehre in terms of sheer brute mana force. During the second test, we learned about Frieren's weakness that Fern discovered, and even a veteran like Denken didn't realize it before even when he went one-on-one with Frieren in the first test. The heavy favorite to pass the First Class Mage exam only saw the drop in Frieren's mana from a clear-cut demonstration. And now we got to know how much Serie also rewards someone who can master one's mana from her monologue. Being able to do so is said to take centuries, making it essentially impossible for humans given their lifespans, and Serie recognizes how being able to control one's mana can decide a battle from the get-go. This makes perfect sense: Flamme taught this skill to Frieren, Frieren taught this to Fern... who taught Flamme this skill in the first place? Serie herself. Serie notices how her mana has been fluctuating. Fern noticed this, given her training in mana mastery since young. But was Fern the only one to notice it? Frieren would have noticed it too, and Serie might or might not have thought of that (didn't matter; Serie intended to fail her anyway). Perhaps that's how Frieren made a bet: ・Bank on Serie's recognition of someone who can master their mana ・Bank on Fern's observation to notice Serie's fluctuating mana It paid off. Did Serie notice Frieren's plan? Maybe, maybe not. Maybe her recognition of mana mastery clouded her judgment and fell for Frieren's plan. Maybe she doesn't care; she only cared about not approving Frieren. Now that I think about it, this episode was more brilliant than I originally thought. I wonder how Denken, Wirbel or even Ubel fared. The show might probably skip it, but I would love to see what happened anyway. Last edited by ACｘS on Mon Mar 18, 2024 6:52 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Hiroki not Takuya
 Posts: 2529 |
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To the last remark, she said "next" after Fern so I think we can assume what happened and this is typical of the economies Freiren's storytelling uses. And I really like your summary and Dusky Predator's insights, brings the whole of the story into focus concisely and adds explanations so it is also informative. I really got something out of them as I tend to take things in before ruminating, so I hadn't gotten as far in putting all that together. But as I had beginnings of thought around those, I can see at once that you are quite correct on all points!
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Harleyquin
Posts: 2875 |
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#28
A long journey, but the last episode of this two quarter plus adaptation ends in much the same way as it began. Frieren is reminded multiple times about the value of relationships, and that death is not the only way to lose someone (memory oblivion is something only elves truly appreciate). Closing off the arc with some humour typical of this franchise doesn't hurt either (the last Stark panic reaction, the last set of Frieren funny faces when she knows Serie is going to ban her, Fern's choice for her rank privilege and Serie's reaction to it, Stark being Stark regardless of locality etc.) There's even one last opportunity for some action, as Frieren faces down an assassination attempt. Lerfen is certainly strong as not many opponents have penetrated Frieren's defences to date. Granted, she wasn't taking him too seriously and probably could have parried it if she concentrated more. But the way she ended the duel before it could even start is also typical of the franchise, as she once again finds the correct non-violent solution to get Lerfen to give up the pursuit of fame/infamy through her usual accurate read of personalities human and elf. Denken and Wirbel's turns in the spotlight indicate this might not be the last time we see them if there's another adaptation. The former because he's played a not insignificant role during the trial and has plenty of combat power of his own, while the latter is also a combat specialist but with a personality more laid back than it appears outside of the battlefield. The latter in particular reminds Frieren (again) about the value of relationships, which the Frieren at the start of this series would not have bothered with whereas the Frieren now understands once again how much the departed Himmel has changed her. Even the episode title callback is the last and longest flashback segment featuring Himmel's party, as his outlook on life did eventually influence Frieren's subtly (but not entirely). The series was hyped by its core audience before the adaptation began, while the production team behind it certainly merited a look because of the track record. What I think really sold casual viewers on this franchise was the decision to air the four episodes all at once instead of over four weeks like the traditional format, as the impact of the first part only shows with this approach. A lot of complaints about how boring the show was to begin with come from watching it week by week and then giving up after week 2. Having watched this to the end, I'm glad I invested my time into it even if I'm not going to pursue the source material and will wait for future adaptations (and there almost certainly will be assuming a few controversies over broadcast airtime are forgotten and forgiven when the decision to adapt more source material is greenlit some time in the future). The world the franchise illustrates, the characters central to the story as well as the themes of memory and relationships which underpin so much of Frieren's journey make this franchise one of the most notable examples of high fantasy this century (and is a contender for most highly rated entry outright in its field). Very much hoping another season happens sooner rather than later, although the final decision also lies with the creator as I'm betting more of a gap has to exist between adaptation and source material to avoid the risk of a half-baked adaptation (which these 28 episodes certainly aren't). |
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smurky turkey
Posts: 2008 |
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Seeing the message at the end I am sure that we will see more eventually, it still really stings to see such an amazing adaption end though. Like I have said before, I do not have a single complaint to make (which is really rare). Every episode was a joy to watch, be it the more calm episodes, the flashbacks or the longer arcs with action in it, everything was done near perfection. It is really hard to not fall in love with the world, characters and setting on offer.
I could go on gushing about many aspects (such as how amazing it looks and sounds), but I will leave it at saying that I can watch Frieren pretty much endlessly and be constantly reminded why I love fantasy as a setting. As for not reading the source material.... that seems like the best way to go about it even if the waiting will suck. |
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Zork
 Posts: 199 |
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Did Serie pass Udel because Udel has great visualization about her magics ability to cut anything? Serie mentioned to Kanne that with magic, what cannot be visualized cannot be done. I hope Serie did not pass Udel because she was afraid of Udel, such as was the case with Sense.
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23833 |
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Episode 28 (Finale - *sob!*)
I have to agree with my esteemed colleague, smurky turkey: I found this show to be flawless which naturally means I could rate it no lower than a Masterpiece. This title pulled off an almost magical feat (fitting since magic was one of its central themes): despite being often low-key and leisurely paced, I was never bored or restless. I found every episode so absorbing they often felt only 5 minutes long. The show had battles and tension but did not rely on them or dramatic revelations, jaw dropping surprises or other tricks of the story trade to engage my interest. Just good old character interaction, emotional resonance (tons of it) and thematic heft (each episode tended to have its own theme and part of the fun was watching how that theme was conveyed). I don't think I recall a false note in any of the 28 episodes, a moment where I thought, "eh, they kinda bobbled that one." Remarkable. I'm not a big rewatcher - there's just too much damn stuff always coming out and older titles I haven't seen yet, but I'll definitely be revisiting this one more than once. Bravo. |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23833 |
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I feel quite confident fear was not a factor. Frieren has indicated that Serie has flawless intuition about magical potential and her decisions are always correct. My interpretation of why Serie didn't pass Frieren isn't that she did it out of spite, it's that she recognized that Frieren was so far above classification that officially calling her a first class mage would be laughably reductive. Sort of like saying Shakespeare was Warwickshire County's greatest playwright. It's a true statement but it rather misses the mark. |
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zfunk
Posts: 257 |
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Serie had to pass Fern, she is her student's student's student, so failing Fern is like failing herself. I know failing Frieren breaks that logic, just want to bring the teacher to student relationships.
So ends this wonderful series. Unless they decide to do some original stories, we won't be seeing season 2 for a while. But we still have the manga. |
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Hiroki not Takuya
Posts: 2529 |
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Well, you got your wish, and a perfectly fitting coda it was! I was happy that the show ended all the personal arcs of the new characters on introspective notes, very fitting of the the overall theme and quite interesting that it was Himmel and Freiren that brought them all to that moment. I was recently reminded that much of human endeavor is started and motivated not by great plans for society or "greater good" but by actions with impact on or with personal meaning for those doing the deeds. We are reminded that Himmel was keenly aware of this and decided to make an impact on those who "were around at the time" in whatever measure he could and now Freiren understands too the purpose and result of it in aggregate...A lot of little things can change the world...This show was a gem and gift to the anime community and I hereby nominate it for Best Of The Year regardless of what CR says. Might even be one of the Best of All Time (?) |
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ACｘS
Posts: 896 |
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Final:
Hell yeah! It's funny to see Frieren yawning outside the building after meeting Serie. Just goes to show how much she gives two sh*ts about the exam result. Super-long post ahead: Even in the final episode, I still get to learn more about Serie's personality. Quite surprised to see her passing relatively a lot of the mages (series, Ubel too? Really??). But more importantly, it cements a few things that I have been suspecting: ・Serie passing other mages ⇒ She failed Frieren purely out of spite ・Serie favors mages who are more hawkish ⇒ Her view on magic is more (traditionally) hawkish The first point is pretty obvious from the previous episode, but the second one has a lot to take in. You might think that Serie was just being flaky, but her personality is perfectly illustrated during her interviews with the three standouts of the exam (apart from Fern and Frieren): ・Denken: the heavy favorite of the lot. Serie extolled Denken's past more than his present state, back when he had more drive and ambition. Back when, as Denken explained, he was more politically ruthless. He is more mellowed now, and Serie can see that so she is less impressed with him now, but she could still sense some fire for him. For that, he passed. If he doesn't have that drive anymore, i.e. if he has become a little more pacifistic (which ironically, we have seen more of this side of him throughout the show), he would have failed. ・Wirbel: Serie liked him because of his frontline experience. When Serie asked his favorite spell, he said none: magic is a tool for killing anyway, so there's no point in having an emotional attachment to any of them. Exactly the way Serie sees magic too, and exactly the way Serie likes it. Her grin said it all. Side note: I love how we got to see more of Wirbel's backstory. He know that he's an antihero who doesn't mind getting his hands dirty, but it's soul-cleansing to hear that he admired Himmel, who was quite the opposite of him. Two mages, two heroes, but with different methods of saving people. ・Ubel: the big surprise for me. Even Ubel is surprised, although she knows. I think it's because Ubel is not afraid to use magic to kill someone. Makes perfect sense for Serie to pass her, after seeing her interview with Wirbel. Given how we know that Serie is against Flamme and Frieren who have been more pacifistic in their view toward magic, I have to conclude that Serie may not be pacifistic. I would even say that she is pro-war. She wants to see magic flourish, and a great breeding ground for that is actually wartime, which would be when demons were more commonplace (side point: innovations were prevalent during World War II). After the demise of the Demon King and the arrival of peace time, we see more of pro-peace mages like Frieren. Serie hates that... imagine how glad she was to see a "dying breed" like Denken, Wirbel and even Ubel still existing in this age. As for the others, I feel like it's a bit of trolling but I can guess why: ・Land: the cheek of him taking the entire First Class Mage exam without even leaving his house. And he actually made it to the end of the exam! That's ballsy. Even Serie had to concede and reward him for that. ・Methode: By this time, I think Serie was just "whatever". Or maybe she also thinks that Methode was cheeky enough to tell her she's cute to her face. Yes, Methode finds elves cute. Yes, Serie is clearly a tsundere. But I feel like it's more of the former. But to be fair, out of all the new First Class Mages, the best one is still Fern. Serie passed all the other mages basically because she liked them (yes, Serie is obviously biased), but Fern was the only one she wanted to take as a student. Also, Fern was the only one to notice Serie's fluctuating mana which is a rare talent. Only one other person has shown to be able to observe that in the building: Lernen. Speaking of Lernen: I feel soooo happy that the show gave him closure (and justice). Like Flamme, he was a student of Serie but the latter ran him down, even looked down on him, for not having the fire in him to fight anymore like he used to when he was younger. I felt bad for him. I fully understand why he wanted to fight Frieren, and it's not because he was curious to know who's the better mage; it's because of the feeling of rejection (it's actually very damaging, especially from a student's point of view). You would think that Serie is an a**hole (and she is), but it's also because, just like Frieren, she doesn't know how to emotionally express herself. If only Serie told her students how proud she is of all of them... even the one she deemed a failure, the late Flamme. Yes, let me repeat: Serie is a tsundere. I rambled so much over the final episode because it seemed to tie up every loose end that I could see. As the final episode, it wasn't only great. It wasn't just amazing. It was also perfect. I can't think of any other more perfect way for the whole series to end. So, speaking of which, what do I think of the whole series? It is one of Madhouse's best productions of all time. In fact, the best one in recent times. This show demonstrates what incredible world-building, storytelling, and character development look like. And for that, it gets 10/10 for me. I cannot remember the last time I gave a show a perfect score. That goes to show how amazing this show has been. I almost missed this show at first, and I'm so glad I picked it up. I don't think I will come across another show quite like this. P.S. Did Sein really get himself an older woman? Finally!? I'm so happy for him! |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23833 |
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I really don't think Serie "failed" Frieren out of spite. Banning Frieren for a thousand years from entering any Continental Mage Association buildings - THAT was spite. Look, the whole notion of Frieren taking the exam in the first place was ridiculous. She was part of the party who defeated the Demon Lord for Pete's sake. As Serie pointed out, the only reason why so many mages even made it to the third stage was because of her. Serie knows that Frieren has zero personal investment in becoming a first class mage, so she knows that "failing" her isn't going to bother her. If she truly wanted to act out of spite, she would have failed Fern. She knows THAT would have gotten up Frieren's nose, but she didn't. Frieren is so far beyond "first class" it's laughable. It'd be like Serie taking the exam.
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